The Coaching Cafe Podcast

International Coach Week Interview: Hayley Goldsmith

• Open Door Coaching

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International Coach Week: Your chance to hear from an inspirational leader 

This year, the International Coaching Federation (ICF) marks its 30th anniversary – 30 years of inspiring change through coaching and setting the standards for our profession. 

It’s the perfect week to celebrate who we are as coaches – and to recognise the difference each of us makes as part of the Open Door Alumni. 

In terms of making a difference, this year we have the opportunity to learn from Hayley Goldsmith from who is currently serving as a Clinical Team Leader at Victoria Police. 

Join Natalie as she interviews Hayley on her remarkable career and how she has applied coaching in very different contexts, from ANZ Bank to her current role at Victoria Police. 

 Join us for the special presentation for International Coach Week. 

About Hayley  

With over 22 years of professional experience and a decade specialising in leadership coaching, Hayley is passionate about empowering individuals and teams to reach their full potential.  

Currently serving as a Clinical Team Leader at Victoria Police, Hayley brings a unique blend of leadership, coaching and clinical expertise to her work. Hayley is passionate about coaching, mental health support and initiatives and the well-being of others.   

Thanks for listening! If you enjoyed the podcast please leave us a 5 star review where ever you listened to us! It helps promote the podcast to streaming services and other listeners.

Watch the webinar of this episode or read the blog by visiting our website.

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[Music] Welcome to the Coaching Cafe podcast.[Music] This week marks International Coach Week. To celebrate, join Natalie as she interviews Haley Goldsmith. Haley has applied coaching in very different contexts from ANZ Bank to a current role at Victoria Police, and thus has a wealth of coaching knowledge to share. If you want to support the podcast, consider giving a five-star review.[Music] We acknowledge the traditional owners and custodians on the lands on which we meet today, and they continue connection to the land, borders, and communities of Australia. We pay our respects to them, their elders past, present, and emerging. Well, it's a very good afternoon, or it's a good morning, or it's a good evening, wherever you are dialing in, listen to our coaching cafe today, either live, or on your favorite streaming service. Welcome back. My name is Natalie Ashdahl from the OpenJour coaching group, and you can hear the excitement in my voice, because this week we are celebrating International Coach Week, and I have a very special guest on the line, who we're going to be talking with today, and that is Haley Goldsmith. Welcome, Haley. Hi, Nat. Thank you. It's great to be here. Well, it's wonderful to have you, Haley, and I'm going to quickly do our introduction so that we can get right into our conversation. So, we are celebrating International Coach Week. It's the 30th year of the International Coach Federation, our celebrations this week, and I was reflecting actually, OpenDore has actually been part of that community, and part of the International Coach Community for 22 years now. So, nearly two-thirds, over two-thirds of the time. And it's really exciting, and you're all part of the alumni, and you're all part of the coaching community, so it's great to have everyone come on the line and to celebrate who we are as coaches, and what coaching is all about. Today we're going to be learning from an inspirational leader. I have got lots of questions lined up, and you are more than welcome to ask your questions of Haley as well. And to do that, you can enter your messages into the chat box, and we can pick them up there. We are all about having a shared learning experience, so if you aren't new to the coaching cafe, welcome. We are about creating shared learning experiences, having thought provoking conversations together, learning new tools, skills, and experiences together. And of course, if you're picking up your ICFBPEs, they will be available for you at the end of the session as well. So, today we've actually set aside about 45 minutes. The coaching cafe normally goes for 30 minutes, but we've set aside some more time today to talk to Haley to learn from her experience and also need to ask any questions that you might have. So, you can sit back and enjoy the presentation, which will be a little bit longer today. So, I'm just going to stop sharing my screen, and then we can just focus together. And so, it's my pleasure, everyone, to introduce you to a lady that I have known for a long time now. Haley brings over 22 years of professional experience, a decade in specializing in leadership coaching, and she's passionate about empowering individuals and teams to reach their full potential, like all of us. I think the main thing I'd like to see here is I've actually seen it in practice so many times. Haley is currently serving as the clinical team leader at Victoria Police, and she brings a unique blend of leadership coaching and clinical expertise to the work. And when I was thinking about who I'd like to interview for International Coach Week, Haley, we had just been having a conversation, I thought it would be so wonderful to talk to you. And one of the reasons is is because of your very varied career. Haley's passionate about coaching, mental health support, and initiatives, and the well-being of others. And as I said, I've seen that in practice for so many years. So, welcome, Haley. Thank you very much for your time today. Fine, thank you. Yes, it has been a long time. And yeah, I think we first met when I was A&Z's coaching manager, which was just over 10 years ago. That's right. Yeah, so it was, it was, I was thinking about how long ago was it, and I think it was over 10 years. And maybe I could, you know, kick that off, actually, because that's where I first met you at A&Z, and now you're in a clinical space at Victoria Police. So, it's really interesting that career transition that you've had over those 10 years. So, I know that you've always been an advocate for coaching in the workplace. So, perhaps we could kick off there and you could take us back to the beginning. And perhaps give us an overview of your career as it relates to coaching, you know, from A&Z through the big police. Yeah, of course. So, I first started, I first started out working for A&Z in, I think it was around 2000 in too as well, and worked in various positions. And finished my career in banking as A&Z coaching manager. Then, after a stint in public health, I transitioned, I transitioned over to work for Victoria Police, and I'm now the clinical, I'm now one of the clinical team leaders. The very important team called the specialist investigator support unit. We love an acronym, so it's called, so we called CISOO, where I work with an incredible team of psychologists and social workers who provide support and leadership coaching to members working across specialized units within Victoria Police. It's such a big difference, A&Z, and the work we were doing at A&Z, two-double work that you were doing now. Perhaps you could share with us what led you into the work, you know, from a purely corporate coaching space into your work with Victoria Police? Yeah, so I was first inspired to champion coaching when I worked at A&Z. So, I was always very curious about people in human behaviour. So, coaching was a very natural progression for me. I always found myself gravitating towards having conversations with people and about their work goals. And it was at a time when we were embarking on a culture change across the organisation, and we were investing heavily in coaching and leadership. I did have a few inspirational managers who believed in coaching and believed that it was the right direction for the organisation, and these managers coached me along the way. I also met you, Nat, who inspired me to expand further on my coaching career, and was able to provide me with the necessary training and coaching skills to use coaching effectively in the workplace. So, it has been quite varied. Yeah, absolutely. And then you decided to go to pursue the clinical approach, and you have studied beyond coaching, haven't you? Yes, so I have studied, I've got my Bachelor of Social Work, and I set it for in business and workplace coaching, and I also hold qualifications in counselling. So, it is varied, but they all do complement each other. Yeah, absolutely. I do, as I said, remember those early times at A&Z, and what we were trying to inspire then, and it sounds like you're doing a similar, you know, we have worked at Victoria Police together as well, and it's a kind of inspiring work you're doing. I suppose what strikes me about what you've shared, Hayley, is how you've applied coaching, not only in the different roles you've had, but in very different organisations. So, I was wondering, what do you see as a difference in terms of how you've applied coaching in those different organisations? If there's any difference? Yeah, all good question. I think both policing and banking offer, often face rapidly changing environments, whether if it's due to new regulations, law reform, or changes to policy and process. I think fundamentally though, coaching is coaching, and it's about people in bringing out their best regardless of the organisation they work in. And leadership coaching helps leaders articulate and align their personal values with the organisation's vision and values. And I think when leaders embody these values, they set a tone that influences the entire organisation, and coaches often focus on developing emotional intelligence, which is essential for the leaders managing diverse teams. And I think that higher emotional intelligence helps leaders to connect with their staff, understand and understand stakeholder needs. I think also encouraging encourages reflective thinking and critical analysis, which can help improve decision decision-making processes. And I think in high stakes environments like policing and banking, sound decision-making and having emotional intelligence are both really important skills for being a good leader. Yeah, I completely agree with you. I was part of Air Force's International Coaching League presentation on Tuesday. And I was thrown a similar question, you know, what's the difference? Because as you say, you've got a high-paced police, that traditional commanding control as well, versus quite different from corporate. And I was thrown a similar question, and my answer was quite similar actually. You know, coaching goes across high-rarkies, it goes across countries as we're experiencing even today on the line with everyone dialing in. And also to me, it goes across generations as well. So the conversation we were having those, you know, what about the younger generations? And I said, well, everyone can benefit from coaching, and you can coach me and I can coach you. Everyone, you know, who's open and willingness to unwilling to benefit from coaching. So I really resonate with what you're saying there in terms of, you know, anywhere where this decision-making needed, emotional intelligence needed, and our leaders, anywhere where there's a fast pace environment, that's always a great opportunity for coaching as well. So yeah, I was thinking also about, you know, being quite inspired to follow your career and being a part of it too. And I was wondering what's been the most inspiring thing about the coaching that you've done or that you've had the opportunity to be a part of? So I would say one of the most inspiring aspects of leadership coaching, and I'll talk about my, I'll talk about my time at Victoria Police, is witnessing the transformative journey of individuals or police members who genuinely seek to grow and improve. So I think many leaders in policing face immense pressure in challenges and seeing them develop their skills in communication, empathy and decision-making can lead to significant positive changes with their crews or with the teams that they manage and within the communities that they that they are a part of. For instance, coaching can help leaders shift from, and you spoke about that before, not a command and control style to one that emphasises collaboration and trust. And this change not only enhances the morale of the crews, but it also fosters better relationships between the police and the communities they serve. So it's inspiring to see how coaching encourages leaders to embrace vulnerability and be really authentic, allowing them to connect with their teams on a deeper level. And when they model these behaviors, it creates a culture of openness, being inclusive, which ultimately leads to more effective policing and team engagement. Yeah, and I think what really resonates with me is that in policing your your coaching leaders, they have teams that they're working with, so and the same as with Air Force as well. I'm queer coaching very senior people who have teams they're working with. The context is the challenge or the context is how they're applying the coaching as well. But fundamentally, we're coaching leaders to be better leaders from what I'm hearing. Yes, correct. And that's, I guess that's been my niche is leadership coaching. So whether if it's been coaching leaders at ANZ or coaching at Victoria Police, I think you have fundamentally, it is the same. It's all just working with people. Yeah, and I wonder, Haley, this is a bit of a question without notice, but we see a question there in the chat about common coaching topics. So is there anything you could share with us, you know, from a general point of view, remembering the sensitivity and the confidentiality, of course. Are there common coaching topics from a leadership point of view that come up in a police context? Yeah, so in a police context, it would be some of the goals that have been spent have been around, it might be around how do I connect in with my with my team or my crew? How do I, how do I, or how does the coaching set goals that are going to be beneficial for, it might be an investigation that they're running or it might be around the, the softer skills. So how do I connect in better with my teams? So a bit like all coaching, it's really up to the person to come up with the goal and what's going to benefit them and then we really work within our frameworks and with our coaching tools to set aside space for the coaching to come up with, yeah, to come up with their, if they mission all their goals. Yeah, absolutely and I know you've created a specialised coaching bank as well which again is taking the broad skills we have and then applying that to the actual context, it makes it context specific. So yeah, that's quite, so I suppose what I'm trying to emphasize is perhaps what you were doing back at ANZ, it's quite similar to what you were doing here at Victoria Police, it's just the difference in the context, you're working with leaders, with leaders, should issues, just as we all would have for the context, is different. Yeah, absolutely, absolutely and I think particularly, you know, whether if you're coaching leaders or if you're coaching somebody who might be an inspiring leader or is somebody who wants to improve their performance, fundamentally, I think the questions are, the questions are the questions. So it's about how do you use those questions to bring out the best in people? Yeah, absolutely, absolutely, and I was respecting also, as I said, on the Air Force conversation where they were talking about the fast-paced environment and the rapid environment and the need for rapid deployment, that you know, catching might not be appropriate in every situation in every environment, however, they're using coaching within Air Force, within Victoria Police in so many different areas around high performance. So as I go, I'll switch to the emphasize again, the context is extremely different, but the application of the skills are really powerful. Absolutely, yeah, I would absolutely agree with that. You're listening to the Open Door Coaching Coaching Cafe podcast and for more information on programs run by Open Door Coaching, head to our website at opendoorcoaching.com.au. Now back to the podcast. So I'm wondering also, I'm Hayley, would you mind sharing what's been some of the biggest challenges you've faced in implementing coaching within the organisations that you've worked with? The biggest challenge. I think the biggest challenge I've faced is changing people's mindset. I think there might have just been a lot of sound there, so I won't be. So I was back in the Earth having coaches transition from coaching consultants to coaching management and leaders across the organisation. And that was a mission because it meant that I had a team of coaches who needed to be trained in upskilled in different coaching models and frameworks. So they were successfully enrolled in Cert for in Business and Workplace Coaching at Open Coaching Door. And graduation day for my team when they all received their coaching, coaching qualifications and our coaching team then expanded is certainly one of the highlights of my coaching career that came from the biggest challenge. Yes, and I think I just dropped out, but I think my sound might have dropped out or maybe it was yours, Hayley, but you did say that the biggest challenge that's changing people's mindsets about coaching in those early days of A&B? Yeah, absolutely. Yes, definitely changing people's mindsets. And looking at how do we, how do we really talk about what the benefits of coaching are, particularly to those being leaders and why coaching is important and the organisational benefits it does bring to the workplace? So my understanding of the mindset back then, it was about trying to bring those benefits and it was also about realizing the organisational benefits, but was the mindset back then more task driven numbers driven, you know, we tell people what to do, we try to incentivise them around the numbers and the figures and the output. And we wanted to really change, I remember some of the people we worked back with then it was, it's about changing that mindset from that traditional task driven approach to more of a coaching approach, we're trying to bring out the best in the individuals. Was that the mindset shift that you saw? Yeah, it was the mindset shift that we saw and it was transitioning, it was, it was embarking on a culture change. So looking at how do we, you know, how do we have these coaching conversations and one thing that I always remember that that you taught throughout your training that was on the spot coaching. So coaching can be done in US. So how will we, you know, how do we turn the organisation or how do we turn the culture into one where we ask questions, we're curious and we coach each other through, through situations. Yeah, I remember them coming back between day one and day two or day three and they'd ask the people and actually got out and tried the coaching skills and it was a real, you know, you get those real ah-ha moments because they've never really done this before. But then, as you say, we need to capture those organisational benefits as well because back then, for those of you that are online, if we're talking 10 years ago, 15 years ago, the work you did at ANZ was quite pioneering back then. Organisations that already introduced coaching. So it wasn't, it's not like you were the first one to do it, but in your area at ANZ, it was definitely pioneering. It was, it was pioneering and we were quite, it was quite transformative. So we were differently. I think that's probably the right way. We were pioneers. Absolutely. Well, you had to convince senior leaders, not only, you know, you've had to do that throughout your whole career, you've had to convince senior leaders to invest in coaching. You know, particularly if they've got a different view of what coaching is. So I'm wondering, Hayley, what advice do you have for others that might be in a similar situation? We've got a huge alumni on the line listening. What advice might you have for people who are trying to convince senior leaders to invest in coaching? Yeah, I think it's good question. I think to know what the benefits of coaching are and how these benefits might apply to your organisation. Also, take the time to listen to why someone might be objecting or having reservations about coaching. I would say to also be clear on how coaching reinforces accountability around goal setting and these goals might be interpersonal goals or relate directly to how they, how they're leading the team or working toward a timeline or a project that needs to be delivered on by a certain time. I also love to use stats when advocating for the benefits of coaching. So some fun facts are that 80% of people who receive coaching reported increased self-confidence and over 70% benefit from improved working performance, relationships and more effective communication skills and 86% of companies report that they recouped their investment in coaching and so that's from the from the ICF. So there really are some benefits to coaching and I'd need more time to probably advocate for all the benefits. Yeah, absolutely and we've seen just with the Gallup reports that have come out over the last couple of weeks, we've talked about the new state of the workforce reports from Gallup and the benefits and the uplifting performance, you know, 20% to 28% when managers are receiving coaching. The other that really interested in statistic for me was that when managers combine developing their people, so I focus on developing their people with the coaching approach, they're talking about like 50% uplifting performance, big creeps and absenteeism. So I love it, you love the statistic, hey, I do as well. But I suppose the main message coming out is that we need to use that information and that data, actually to build that piece of case for coaching as well. And I do find particularly senior senior managers do like to like to see, you know, what's the benefits and so if you can go in really strongly with some stats, then it helps to shape those and form those conversations around why coaching is important. Yeah, and you talked about a lot of those benefits that you've seen through actually career as well. I noticed that as we talked about youth-explanarger skills to be trained in social work. So I suppose it's a good opportunity to say thank you for your service because of the role that you do and the way that you serve our community as well. I'm wondering how do you see your coaching skills, the training you did there sitting alongside your clinical role? Yeah, so my social work, I think my social work qualification compliments my coaching skills because each skill draws on using a strength-space approach. Coaching sits, it's alongside my clinical role by encouraging people to engage proactively with their own mental health and wellness. And I think both coaching and social work focuses on empowering individuals to make their own decisions and to come up with solutions that are right for them. And also both approaches work very well within large systems and ultimately people and their decision-making make the systems. So by focusing on enhancing human the human elements and addressing any biases that people might have can lead to changing, can lead to changes in culture. I think my background in social work allows me to take a broad review of the person in front of me and their systems and context. I think holistically while my clinical skills allow me to address any psychological or emotional needs, coaching can also identify things like early signs of burnout and areas for improvement. And I think my coaching skills do complement my clinical role from that aspect and they work, I guess, handing them off together. Yeah, I can, I'm fascinated by what you say there around, you're seeing more of the whole of the person because you have those, that other strong skillset as well, not just your coaching skillset and how they work in a really complementary way, particularly around systems and context. I'm wondering, do you actually have that feeling haily of taking off your coaching hat and putting on your your clinical hat or is it how you're showing up? So, so you'll show up to the conversation and whatever they need they need. Do you have what are your thoughts there? Yeah, it's because of the environment that we work in. So I work in an environment where I guess clinically we would use brief a brief crisis intervention, framework or model to work with people who might be experiencing crisis in the moment. But also that's that's just one aspect of the work and of the role. It also might be that we you know, we're working with someone who might just need to have a conversation around something that is something that it's blocking them in their life from moving forward for doing something. So then I would draw on my coaching skills and my coaching experience to be able to weed that into the conversation. So it is, it's like having, it's like it is like having a toolbelt. You know, you've got all of these skills and then you sort of pull out what you need at the right time and sometimes things can be blended and sometimes you know, you might stick purely to coaching. It just really depends on the person or the context. Yeah, I had that analogy coming up. You might head around the toolbelt and the and the and that affluxability that you have, you know, from my perspective, I would be making referrals, but you've got that entire set of flexibility that you can bring to the service of the other people you're working with. Yeah, it's wonderful. So I'm wondering also given your, you know, over 10 years in coaching, do you have any advice or key learning that you might have for people listening, not only online, but you know, alumni who listen on the podcast? Are there any kind of advice or key learning that you would like them to take away? Yes, keeping parents back for teaching and learning different models that are out there and how they might apply to your coaching sessions. Also to experiment with your coaching and to trust your instincts that you will ask the right questions at the right time. Also, not to give up on the person who might be initially resistant to coaching. I think the impact of coaching contributes to things like we discussed before systemic change within the organization you might be working in. It also helps people engage with new perspectives or having a ripple effect of the benefits throughout the organization you were working in. So don't give up. Yeah, I really like that. I think, yeah, and I think what I love about what you shared is you've actually implemented coaching in challenging environments where where it would be easy to go, oh, that's a, you know, a commanded controlling environment. They're not going to be interested in coaching. But as we know, not only are they interested in coaching is just such a great opportunity to bring your toolkit. So I love what you say. They're about curiosity, not giving up, focusing on the whole of the person, which is a really advanced approach to coaching as well. And Nicole has also asked, do you have any favorite models? So what do you, what do you go to models? Do you think are your favorite models? My favorite models, good question, good question. I do have a few favorite models that I make that I might go to, particularly in leadership coaching. So there is, so there's the glory model. I think everybody will be, or should be, hopefully, is familiar with the glory model. There's also the clear model and the fuel model, which are also popular, popular coaching models within the leadership context. And particularly like the clear model, because it emphasizes on building trust and understanding through, through contracting, you also explore action and review using that model. And the fuel model focuses on framing the situation. And it is really good for understanding your client's perspective and exploring options and then laying out a plan, particularly if you're working with somebody who might be not only managing a team, but they need to also deliver on a project as well. So it just helps to redefine and refine what the goals are. Yeah, and absolutely in line with the, you know, the ICF core competencies around establishing the agreement and, and, as you say, the contracting part of it. I think also given the spaces you've worked in, that contracting with as a range of stakeholders involved in the coaching process. So extremely important. Well, hey, the, I would just like to say thank you so much. We've, we've learned so much from you in terms of, you know, the different approaches to coaching that you're taking the different environments and contexts. We've got one, a couple of, a couple of last questions coming in if you don't mind. Absolutely. So Julie's asked if there are any inquiries, intricacies that need to be considered to call a leader or someone a coach. Do they have to be certified? Have a qualification to be considered a coach? No, I know you've got some strong opinions on that. Obviously I do, but I think I've been able to hear your opinion as well. Yeah, so I, I think anyone can ask with the right training, anybody can ask coaching questions as long as you know, the frameworks and you've, and I think from an ethical point of view, you would be wanting to know what you're doing before you're working with a, with another human. So whether if that is you've been trained in a workshop or you decide to go down the more formal path of, so foreign business of coaching or other formal qualifications, but I think, yeah, I do think, either, either really great training or qualifications are definitely needed. I think also just going to research that I've done, you know, coaching particularly manages as coaches. So we can all be great leaders, we can all be great managers, but the great managers who are coach have what you talked about, that coaching mindset. So they are, they are bringing those coaching principles, they're bringing in the coaching mindset, the beliefs about people, you know, you talked about bringing out the best in people and thinking about the whole of the person, not giving up on the person. So I think unless you have that mindset around developing people and you're demonstrating those behaviors, the research would say, but also in practice, you can't, you can't call yourself a coach, you could call yourself a great leader, but we're really looking at bringing those coaching skills and the coaching mindset to the forefront. And that's where, you know, the research says that managers need to be trained in those skills, they're not necessarily natural at doing that, so they need to be trained in those skills. And interesting, the recent research I've read says that managers want more training in those skills, and I mean, that's easy for us to say it opened your coaching, but there's a lot of research to say that managers haven't been adequately trained in those skills, and that's where all the qualifications, et cetera, come into it soon. Yeah, absolutely, yeah. And of course, as you mentioned, and Haley, is about having conversations, so we can have coaching-like conversations by listening, asking great questions, as Julie's pointed out as well. Yes, yeah, absolutely. Well, I really want to thank you for your time, this, as I said, so much that you've actually shared with us. You know, it's been a wonderful work with you over all of these years, but also, you know, to find inspiration from the work that you do, and the way that you're serving at community today as well. So, behalf and behalf of alumni, I want to thank you very much, Haley, for your time, and wish you and everyone a very happy international coaching week. Thanks, NAP, happy international coaching week to you and everyone online, so and thanks for having me as a guest and for, yeah, letting me be a part of this really important conversation. Thank you. And as I said, we've all learned from your wealth and knowledge and experience, so we're very grateful for that as well. Thanks for listening to this episode of the Couching Cafe podcast. You can watch the full video of this podcast on our website. I'll put a link in the show notes. We'll see you at the next Couching Cafe.[Music]