The Coaching Cafe Podcast

Rainbows and Lollipops and Shifting under performance

• Open Door Coaching

Share episode

Recently, during a workshop, a manager said what many others are thinking: “It’s not all rainbows and lollipops. What if they are under performing? What do you do then?” 

The frustration was real, and it is common.  This was a manager doing their best to support an employee but unsure what else to try; and they needed more strategies, and wanted to understand how coaching might help.  

With this in mind, we continue our focus on annual performance review season in this week’s Coaching Café Pocast.   

So far, we’ve explored how these conversations can build engagement in the workplace; frameworks and tips to set up conversations for success; strengths-based conversations and the trickier conversations. 

This week, join Natalie and Paula as we explore one of the most challenging topics: how a coaching approach can shift under performance. 

You’ll walk away with: 

  • A coaching mindset/approach to address under performance constructively 
  • Strategies for reframing these conversations to build ownership 
  • Practical tools from Open Door you can use immediately 

Whether you’re designing performance conversations, coaching managers, or coaching an employee – you will benefit from learning how to coach around under performance. 

If you are a regular, you know the vibe and the great contribution that you make to our discussions; so we look forward to welcoming you back and offering you a value-packed 30 minutes each Tuesday. 

If you’ve not joined us for a Coaching Café Podcast, now is your opportunity to schedule this time for your professional and personal development.    In no time at all, you’ll be looking forward to Tuesdays, just like we all do! 

Thanks for listening! If you enjoyed the podcast please leave us a 5 star review where ever you listened to us! It helps promote the podcast to streaming services and other listeners.

Watch the webinar of this episode or read the blog by visiting our website.

Contact The Coaching Café Podcast

Thanks for listening!

[Music] Welcome to the Coaching Cafe podcast.[Music] This week, join Natalie and Paula as they discuss a coaching mindset/approach to address underperformance constructively. Strategies for reframing these conversations to build ownership. In practical tools from Open Door, you can use immediately. We hope you enjoy the podcast. If you do, please consider leaving a five-star review.[Music] We acknowledge the traditional owners and custodians on the lands on which we meet today and they continue to connect into the land, borders and communities of Australia. We pay our respects to them, their elders past, present and emerging. Well, it's a very good morning to you. It's a good afternoon or it's a good evening to you wherever you are listening to this Coaching Cafe, either live or on your favourite streaming service. My name is Natalie Ashtam. I'm joined on the line by a really wide global community and also our resident HR specialist Paula Jones-Hunt. Welcome Paula. Hi everyone. We had just done the weather report so we are well and truly up to date with whatever the weather is doing around the globe live on our coaching cafe. Today, let's get down to business though, we are talking about shifting under performance. Is it all rainbows and a lollipops? Well, let's have a think about that together. Well, our agenda for today, we are in performance conversation season and we are going after the harder topics today as we did last week. We're thinking about underperformance. We also think about this though as an opportunity to build engagement in the road close we've been talking about that for last few weeks about how we as coaches as leaders can make a difference to engagement. If you are new to the Coaching Cafe, welcome. We are all about building a community, having a shared learning experience, having thought for making conversations. And of course, welcome back to our community. You know that we love coming together at this time. It's wonderful that you come. Some of you are staying up really late at night to listen to what's live, which I think is so amazing. So thank you for being part of our community. And if you want to reach out, you can pop a message in the chat box and we'll pick up your comments as we do in the chat box. So when we were talking about underperformance recently in a workshop, I was delivering our certificate for in workplace and business coaching. We're doing the five day program in-house and invariably we get to this module at about halfway through the program. And we are talking about underperformance and how we can coach around underperformance. And again, just two weeks ago, someone said to me, "Well, you know what, Matt? It's not all rainbows on lollipops." I'm like, "Oh, great, great, great, great title for the Coaching Cafe. It's not all rainbows on lollipops. What if they are actually underperforming? What do you do then?" So we're talking about performance conversations. And what if they are actually underperforming? Let's not, you know, strong guitars, do rainbows and lollipops. What do we do then? Paula, I'm just going to quickly ask you, you've heard this a lot, haven't you? We'll talk about what we're going to do about it. But just tell me what your experience has been with these kind of comments. People really are frustrated. They want to find a better way of doing it. They want to take the coaching approach and they want to leave in it. But let's face it, it's not all rainbows on lollipops when you're talking about underperformance. So can you get a, like, a quick insight to that as well? Yeah, and it's hard because managers are in the workplace. They're not turning up thinking, "How do I, you know, I want to work with people who are engaged and we want to build a team." And then you've got some individuals who aren't quite stepping up to where they need to be. And it can be a matter of they don't have the skills to do it, or it can be that their engagement level is not allowing them to do it. So it can be really difficult. It can feel, I've spoken with lots of managers who feel like they're banging their head against a brick wall because they've tried a lot of things and it's not working. And I often hear, "I want to motivate them to do more." And inside I'm saying, "But they have to want to do the more themselves." So people, I genuinely feel leaders out there who are working hard and trying and they're just not quite sure how to get them to the next stage. Yeah, it's I agree with you. And why do we care about this, well, what we've been sharing with the statistics over the last two weeks and these come from gallop.com. Only 14% of the employees strongly agree that the reviews that they received inspire them to perform better. And only 26% of employees strongly agree that they're accurate those performance reviews. And only a third of people, 29% strongly agree that they're fair. So we've got concerns about performance reviews that not inspiring, they're not accurate and they're not fair. And this is compounded, particularly if a person is not at level. So if they're not performing at the level, then these statistics kind of get even worse. So the person is thinking that they're even more not accurate, even even more not fair. So let's have a think about what we can do from a coaching point of view and what we want to share with you is our two really favourite models to think about this. So what do we do? We need to take a coaching approach. Well, we know that we need to take a coaching approach. Now, the terms and conditions apply here. We have to take a coaching approach within the boundaries that are set with us throughout organisation. So the organisation will have processes and procedures that we need to follow if we're having to help a person who is underperforming. Now, they call them performance management processes, which, you know, we've talked about this over the time. I think everybody should be on performance management because we're managing our high performance. But let's not go over and talk about that today. Everyone should be on performance plan because that's hard to achieve high performance. But what we're talking about here is performance management is typically in most organisations or counselling, performance counselling, if you're in defence or in the Air Force. It's all about counselling that person to do better. And that's what the performance management system is. So we have to do whatever we're doing for a coaching point of view within that boundary. But firstly, we want to offer you though, is a big reframe. What we often hear is people saying, "What do I do with my underperformers?""What am I going to do? That person's underperforming. I'm giving all my energy, all my time. It's going towards his underperformers. I've got some good people on my team. They're starting to resent those people who are not performing. They have to pick up their load.""Everything we talk about is so common. We hear it really often." So the first thing we want to think about is a reframe on this. And think about shifting performance. So how do I help this person shift performance? Now, managers will be asking those questions already, but I do finally get into the loop about, "What am I going to do? What else can I do? What more can I do?""My team is struggling and they're starting to resent." So we get this kind of self-talk out loud as well to people around them about what can't be done and what can they do, but there's not really good strong coaching questions. So the first thing we want to focus on is that reframe. Let's talk about performance. Forget about the underperformance. Cross that out. Let's talk about the performance. Now, of course, if you... we've got a diagram up here on the screen. If you listen to this on your favorite streaming service, the diagram is also on our website as well for you to check in. So what we're thinking about here is a shift, a lift, a raise, a change in performance. You can switch in any words you like, but what we're going to do is... So we're going to ask the question out to the people at the coaching. So how can you shift your performance? How can you lift your performance? Well, but it looked like to raise your performance. Where do you need to make changes in your performance? What do you need to do differently? Because we've got expectations and goals about where we need to be. And the reality is this is where you're at. So I like using the grow model here, but it's kind of the grow model with a lovely twist when it comes to underperformance. We're thinking about what is reality, what's happening now. We're putting that on the table. This is these benetrics. This is the performance. This is where you're at. But I'm here to support you to change, to do things differently, to shift, lift, raise your performance from where you are now, to where you need to be. There we can talk about options, we can lay out a plan, what will we do, etc, etc. Paul, you've done a lot of these kind of things. What's your inside advice thoughts about taking this approach, as opposed to the kind of old-style approaches? Yeah, I mean, I'm a huge fan of this approach. I really love the idea of reframing it to...it's just performance. It's not underperformance because you can use this for anybody. We want to shift, lift, raise or change anyone's performance. So you don't just use it with the underperformance. So then you've got a consistency of approach across your team. So that's the first thing is that what we're talking about is shifting performance and not just focusing on underperformance. The other thing I like about this is that in old-school performance reviews, in order to shift performance, you are focusing on getting to...you go for...you want to go from zero to perfect performance in a short period of time, which is not actually realistic. So in this model, it's about what's the first step that we need to do? And then you revisit and go, what's the next step that we need to do? So you're raising it step by step rather than going, here's the big beautiful picture we need at the end and then they don't get there and it feels terrible. Instead it focuses back and it says, well, what's one thing we can do? That will shift your performance in the next period of time. What's the next...and then you go to the next...so I think it breaks it down into really much nicer chunks that are achievable. And the person can actually meet rather than having to go, well, the big picture is if I don't get here, there's an issue. That might be where we need to get to, but let's start with the first step. Yeah, it's very important of what you're saying there, Paula. And I remember actually that I designed this model on a plane. I was sitting over, I think, to pair for the time. And it really was about, there will be a better way. Like, it's just things aren't going well in the whole performance conversation space. And I always think exactly what you're thinking then. And what if it was a continuum from where you are now to where you want to be, you know, just a basic. And then as you say, breaking down those that are back continuum into smaller chunks that are achievable. And so I think what you point out there, and if those people that can see the diagram, that's why we've got that continuum of what you can do along the way. So you're not just going from zero to hero, because not possible is what I'm hearing you say as well. You're listening to the Open Door Coaching Coaching Cafe podcast. And for more information on programs run by Open Door Coaching, head to our website at Open Door Coaching.com.au. Now back to the podcast. The other thing also then is we get pushed back straight away. Like, okay, this is great. You can shift, lift, raise, change, performance, year, year, year, or re-frame, this will re-frame this, but they're not performing. So we go, okay, we understand they're not where you want them to be. Can you see the re-frame? Even when we come back on this, we still use the re-frame. Okay, I understand you're not where they need to be. Let's talk about what's happening now. Let's put it on the table. Let's get clear about where you are now. So this is where there might be a lot of discussion that has to happen about what the actual reality is. Now, if the manager disagrees, what if the person is overrating themselves? Well, you can pull out your metrics and you can pull out your job descriptions, then you can pull out the evidence and all of that stuff as well and go, well, the evidence is the following. This is what reality is. This is what you're saying, but this is what I'm seeing now. You can have those conversations. The problem is you can get very bold down in those conversations, what we need to really focus on is where you need to be. Paula, is you want to add to that before we move on? Because we do, even with the idea of this mindset that you and I talked about, we still get really big resistance because the reality is really tough, is what we're describing here. Yeah, and when there's a difference in someone's overrating themselves, I would generally lean into it. Can you give me some examples of how you have over, how you, what examples you've got that match the rating that you're providing? And then if you have, if you're a manager and you've done all your homework, then you can go, well, I've got this example as well where it didn't match that, and that's where I'm pulling this from, so that you've got a better standpoint from. So can you tell me some examples of when you demonstrated that, and if you've got, if it has to be underpinned by the behaviours or the values of the organisation, how did you, how did you use or demonstrate the values when you were doing what you delivered? Correct. And we don't want to get into a, you know, he said, she said, they said conversation, and we don't want to get into these, you know, backers and forwards defensive conversations. So I put the evidence on the table, explore the evidence together, and then work out where to from here. So the intention here is really important. And what I also offer to people is they might be coaching and the person put something on the table, and you can actually say, you know, they're saying, but I am performing, I am doing this, I am doing that. And you can say, I acknowledge what you've done so far, and this is where we need to see some change, lift raise, etc. So we're still going with the, yes, you have done things. You, it's not that you've done nothing. What we're focusing on now is where you need to be. So you can still come back to that conversation as well. And these are tough conversations. A person can be completely denying that they're not performing in the way that they need to. All sorts of things can be going on. I wouldn't be surprised if sometimes people don't feel like they're in a psychological list, they're in a logical, least-eighth workplace that they feel like they're not being heard and listened to. And then they respond with sick leave and absenteeism. All of those things happen. You know, there's a lot going on in this space. And at the same time, we still believe that we can, we can help work through, we still believe we can get good outcomes in this way. And I think when you talk about that reality space too, Natalie, it's about where would you like to be? So if we hear how are you feeling about how you are here? And what would it feel like if you were there? And how can we get to there? Because chances are someone who's underperforming is probably feeling disengaged and all sorts of it. And they probably got here over a period of time that might not even be exactly about the time that you've been managing them. So it's true. But let's have a look at if you were in the space, if you were doing the work that you wanted at the level that you wanted to do, what would that look like? What would that feel like? What would we be seeing? What would we be hearing? And then what's the first step to get us there? Like all of those catchy questions, yeah, absolutely. And the question I would put in front of that as well is around my intention. So an statement of my intention. So my intention is to work with you. And my intention is to have you feeling engaged, as you said, Paula, have you feeling engaged? Have you feeling motivated? I want you to come to work and enjoy your work, et cetera, et cetera. So we're sitting our intention around that. And then why am I inviting the person to do? And I even like these words. And I'm inviting you now to have a conversation with me that helps us get there. And particularly if you know the person's not engaged or not motivated, I like those words. I invite you to have a think about where you want to be, what it looks like, what it's going to feel like. And I want to have those conversations with you. So all those questions that you offered, Paula, are so important. And it can be framed in an invitation in terms of positive intent there as well. So we want to give you one more tool. And we're very strong advocates of this. It doesn't work in all organizations. And we totally appreciate that. But people that have done a certificate for and workplace and business coaching will appreciate that this is in your module, sever, I think. And we're basically asking that the employee puts the plan together. And think about it two by two matrix. When we think about the goal, we want the employee. You're going to be coaching the employee or coaching a manager to coach the employee to work out what the actual goals are. As Paula said, along that continuum, let's break them down. And let's set the goals. And then imagine a two by two matrix where we say, well, in order to achieve that goal, what do you, the employee need to start doing? What do you need to stop doing? Perhaps there's things that they could do more of. So maybe they've started something and they're simply they can do more of. Or perhaps they don't necessarily need to stop something. They could do less of something. So you've got starts, stop more of less of in your in your two by two in your quadrants. The important thing here is in our experience, most managers right up the plan. We're truly it's the employee that when they're making that engagement between what they're thinking, what their goals are. And they are physically writing it up for their physically document. They've got to put down things in those boxes and in those goals that they actually achieve. So now there's accountability and responsibility being put in place here as well. It makes a massive difference when the employee actually lays out the actions for themselves. Now the big caveat here is we are assuming that the managers are doing everything they can to support the employee as well. So if that's not the case, then we just have to run another webinar. But it comes back to what Paula says about we can all be shifting, lifting, raising our performance. Whenever I think I need to perform better in any of my various roles, I like to write my goal. And then I put myself on a performance plan and I go, right, what do I need to start doing, stop doing, do more of, do less of. If we want to perform better, we use this also as our continuous improvement processes. We use it to a post implementation review on projects. Because we want to continue to perform well on projects that we do as an open door team. So this is our approach to post implementation review as well. It's such a simple diagram, but that concept that the person whose performance we're talking about is the person that puts the performance plan in place. I think it's one of the most critical things. I even got pushback on this one time to say, oh no, the employee doesn't have access to the system. So I have to type it into the system. That's what the manager said. And I said, well, but they draw it up and then you type it in. And I thought, what are you? Just their, their tire cut, you know, just their admin person, but, but anyway, Paula, I can see you nodding and smiling. And you're very wise in this, in this, in this regard, you've coached thousands of managers around this. So go on. I'll stop talking. You tell us your wise words. Well, I, I'm a, I'm a big fan of this tool as well. And because sometimes people think about, oh, I have to stop start less of more of, and it has to be task based. It's actually just have to be task based. It could be thought processes. It could be how you feel about something. You need to stop start more of less of from your approach to something. And so there's lots of ways that you can use this. And often I find you put, you start this process and there's nothing in the stop. There's nothing. There's no way I could stop doing something. There's absolutely no way. And by the time you get to the end, you come back and go, okay, so now that you've had a thought of think about it, what could you stop doing? And then there's a bunch of things people can put on the list. And I just love that this process helps them to work through all of that to find the action items to move forward. So very busy people. This is a great tool for because often there's busyness in the busyness. And then you can look at it and go, well, how do we break these down? What does this look like for me? What are the priorities? Because I think that's what it does through the process as well as it starts you getting to look at what are the priorities? And then I get the most amount of value from spending my time. And then you've got like there's actions that just flow out of it, which is amazing. Yeah, I really agree with you. And as you're speaking, I'll think you, well, this song, if we were actually being honest about this, then we could say, well, I could stop blaming others for my situation. So I could start thinking about what responsibility I can take for my situation. Now that takes a different level of emotional intelligence at a different level of self awareness. And at the same time, that's what's possible. So it might be, I could stop as you were saying, Paula, the feeling, the thinking, the saying, you could, you could stop saying to yourself, this place is terrible. Whatever a person might be saying and start saying, I want to engage. I want to be happy. Whatever it might be, so you could even change what they're saying to themselves, what they're saying to others. Stop room among the room in the, in the, at the water cooler or, you know, on the chat systems or whatever they've got going and, you know, all of those kind of things. It does take honesty and it does take stuff for awareness. And if it's done right, it makes a massive difference. So that's what we want to offer you. This is not easy and we acknowledge that. And at the same time, we can make a real difference here. We know that Gallop tells us that we can significantly increase engagement in the workplace. So we can increase engagement in the workplace when employers provide their managers with training, it improves managers, thriving significantly. And also it's someone in the workplace encourages that person's development, the thriving increases even more. So when we apply those concepts and these statistics to underperformance, we can find out the reasons why we can go under the surface, we can flush it out as Paul said, maybe it's about training, maybe it's about knowledge, maybe it's about personal things that are impacting the person. So we can find out the reasons why we can go under the surface, do some really good conversations under the surface. And then if we're able to focus on the engagement, focus on some, maybe some training, focus on anything that encourages their development in this area, then we will see our turnaround potentially in the, the, the, the, the, the indicators as well. So coaching managers to coach the people, training managers to coach their people, training them to have these difficult conversations and to work through it so that we can get a thriving and engage workplace. That's what we're all about. Alrighty, it's been great to have this conversation with you. We look forward to catching up with you at our next webinar. And we will say enjoy your coaching and goodbye. Thanks for listening to this episode of the Coaching Cafe podcast. You can watch the full video of this podcast on our website. I'll put a link in the show notes. We'll see you at the next coaching cafe.[Music]