The Coaching Cafe Podcast

Talking About Mental Health - The Barriers

• Open Door Coaching

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Last Friday was World Mental Health Day!

We want to acknowledge that you—or someone you know—may be experiencing challenges with mental health. We recognise that as leaders, coaches, colleagues and friends, we all have a role to play in enabling strong mental health in our workplaces and breaking down the barriers to having mental health conversations.  

Join Paula on the Coaching Café Podcast this week as we discuss the barriers to mental health conversations and simple steps we can take to overcome those barriers. 

We also encourage you to take the time for your own wellbeing. Take 30 minutes to focus on your mental health—whatever that looks like for you. Walk, talk, catch up with a colleague, listen to music, laugh, run, jump, breathe, meditate…whatever it is—now is the time. 

Let’s honour World Mental Health Day by putting conversations and wellbeing first. 

Transcripts can be found here:

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Watch the webinar of this episode on YouTube or read the blog by visiting our website.

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[Music] Okay, welcome everybody to our coaching cafe this morning. It's World Mental Health Day today and today we're going to have a chat around breaking down the barriers to conversations. So my name is Paula. I am the resident HR specialist at Open Door Coaching. Natalie is off doing other things today and Bridget is also facilitating today so it's just me so I'm hoping that you will be, I'm hoping that you'll ask lots of great questions and we can have a great chat about this and I'd really love your input today. So as we begin we acknowledge the traditional owners and custodians of the lands on which we meet today and their continuing connection to the land, waters and communities of Australia and the lands from all around the world upon which you might be joining us. We pay our respects to them and their elders past, present and emerging and elders from indigenous communities around the world. So what is on our agenda today? Well it is World Mental Health Day and we're recognizing World Mental Health Day today. We're going to look at what are the barriers to having conversations with people around mental health, how we can approach the conversation and of course we'll take it from a coaching approach. As always it's about creating a community shared learning experience, thought, provoking conversations and I am very happy to have everybody jump in and chat with us today asking questions or providing you valuable insights. I'm really looking forward to that. And then for everyone who is looking for their ICF-CCE's they will be available at the end. Okay so let's get started. So before we begin we will be speaking about mental health in the workplace and you or someone you may know, may have a lived experience with mental health. Some participants may find the content confronting or it might cause distress. If someone or someone you know needs support we've put the contact details down here for you. If it is difficult for you then if you would like to reach out to me after the session I would very happily have a conversation with you and you can reach out to us by the O-Fi Open Door. If there's someone that you know that needs support the options we have that we've popped up our lifeline so you can call lifeline on 131114 or go to lifeline.org.au. There's also Beyond Blue which is 1300 224636 so you can go to the Beyond Blue website at beyondblue.org.au. There's a suicide callback service and as I have learnt recently it doesn't mean they call you back. It's just a I'm not sure why it's called suicide callback but they do actually take your call. That's 1300 659467 or the suicide callbackservice.org.au. If at any point a life is in danger please call triple zero or your emergency services in the our country that you are living in at this point in time. So we do acknowledge that there's lived experience in the room and that there may be people who are currently living with for themselves or for people that they know and love and if it is of any concern please contact the numbers that we've talked about. Okay so Friday 10th of October is a World Mental Health Day in 2025 in Australia. They're who? So the World Health Organization, the states that mental health day is an opportunity to raise awareness of mental health issues around the world and to mobilize efforts in the support of mental health and I think I like to think that we have come a really long way in the mental health space. It's conversations, it's the mental health first data program that we have. I think COVID actually highlighted the importance of understanding mental health and knowing how to work with people from a mental health perspective. I think as coaches we have this space where we hear people say things out loud and thoughts that they might not say to other people and sometimes it is knowing that that thought that there's something behind that thought or what could that mean or how can we help them from that perspective. Now whilst we have come a really long way they're still a really long way to go as well and there are still a lot of barriers for people around mental health, mental health conversations one not wanting to talk about it and that's what we're going to look at today is what are some of those barriers. I'm going to tell you how might they present when we're coaching people or talking with people and then we're going to look at an approach that says if they're coming up, how can we have this really great conversation with them. So if we're thinking about the barriers to conversations and just as a note I deliver our mental health first aid so I'm a mental health first aid trainer at mental health first aid. I also have 20 odd years of experience in HR and I have had lots of mental health conversations in that space but some of the some of the barriers to conversations in the mental health space are not being able to see the injury so people see if you've got a broken arm it's very easy to see that there's a problem and that for people to go oh what happened and what happened with your arm but when the injury is internal it's not so easy to see and it's not so easy to talk about and people that think that because you can't see it then it isn't really an injury and it's really trying to break down the idea that we have the physical and the mental and we're really focusing on in that mental space you don't have to be able to see it to know that it's there if you are not feeling well if you are not being your best if you are not able to do all the things that you would normally do in your life then that is an injury. Not knowing what to say is another big one so often people are very worried that if they say something they will make up worse that if I say something then that person won't want anything to do with me later and in actual fact when we look at suicide often and as part of the training it's about asking that person have they considered suicide because and I've heard people say but won't that make them think about it if they hadn't been thinking about it before and the answer is no it won't do that they had been thinking about it before then it's just a way to be able to then know how to help them but I think it's a little scary space where people think oh I don't know what to say how do I say that what will happen if I say that and so it's one of those barriers about breaking down that it should just be in we want it to be a conversation that and it may be uncomfortable we often have to have uncomfortable conversations it may in fact be a lot uncomfortable at the time but the benefit will outweigh that uncomfortableness because sometimes what people need to hear is that someone noticed and that someone is concerned and that there's an opportunity to help to get to get help for that and hope is a really big thing in this space that there is help available and that there are things that you can do but knowing what to say it can often be one of those areas where you're not sure should I raise it should I not raise it and I always go in if it's something that you've noticed and your your intention is to help that person and your intention comes from a place of wanting to assist then it is okay to have that conversation one of the other barriers is knowing something is not right but the person doesn't want to talk about it often people think well if I raise it and they don't want to talk about it then I'm what was the point or that if they won't want to talk to me and that actually may well be the case in on occasion so sometimes you're not the right person for that for them to talk to and that's not about you that's actually about what that person needs so we can't make someone talk about it either so if you raise it and the person says I'm really sorry I don't want to talk about it with you then that is okay and that just means that that person you're you may not be the right person for them or they might not be at the right time to have that conversation the key though is that you asked the question and checked in on that person and sometimes it might be as easy as well that's okay should we have a conversation later if they say no then we leave it we respect that but that barrier is sometimes we think they won't want to talk about it and so we don't have the conversation but sometimes it is that they don't want to talk about it and that's that's there's no problem with that it's more that you raised it and you've had that conversation and that might mean something for that person later on one of the other barriers getting buying from top management and getting the right people in the classroom we often get this from an organizational perspective we want to talk about mental health but it's not the management who want to come it's the its individuals and how do we systematically change out the way we talk about mental health in the workplace if the management aren't at the table and this is very real I've seen this where it's where management I think there's an acknowledgement that people have mental health issues and but there's also a lot of talk about oh well that should you know is that something that's an organizational issue is that just an individual issue and in some respects it is the individual's issue but they are coming to work and we want to create places where people feel comfortable coming to work and that no matter what your injury is it can be managed as you're going through the process so someone had a broken leg and the doctor gave them and said they could come back to work we would make allowances for that because we want people to be coming back and to be having that sense of purpose and so this sits in the same space for me that says if the if the doctor says yes they can come back to work and here's my little hd I had on you'll hear me with that focus around return to work if people can what adjustments can we make that would mean that they can come back to work that they can be contributing in a positive way and so getting that buy-in from top management is actually really important and having the right people in the room but however if you can't then getting started anywhere is better than not getting started at all so we recommend if you can't get the buy-in at the top that's okay start where you can start the perception of whose role is it to have these conversations and not knowing if it's my role and we will actually talk about this one more in the next program as well but for me it's a people it really comes down to it's not necessarily anyone's specific role if everyone's role if you notice something and is to have a conversation if you notice that you're the person sitting next to you is having a bad day you generally reach out and say hey how's it going is everything all right to me it's not your role to do that because it's you know it's not necessarily a defined box that says on your position description it's your role to have to cheer up your teammate or to check in with them so it sits in the same space for me here is that people are people and if someone if I can help someone or support someone in any way then that's what I'm going that's what my approach is going to be I'm going to say to check in and say it has everything going are you all right might a maybe a bit provocative but also fatigue it's like every second person has a mental health issue and as a manager I'm tired of having to deal with that and well one in five people in Australia which are the statistics one in five people in Australia have a mental health issue in any one year I actually think that it figure is higher and one of the reasons for that is when they do that survey around mental health it's a telephone survey and so there are some things in there there are some people who are missed in that area so if you don't have a telephone if you are if we think about across across the board anyone incarcerated wouldn't be part of that survey in that statistics homelessness and people living in rural areas might not be included so if you included all of that I actually think that statistic is higher so you are right that it's not every second person but it's more like every two three people that it is a concern for them at that time and there is some I think it is that idea of fatigue is from a manager's perspective and we've talked about this a lot in our series is that from that fatigue perspective it's actually people fatigue not necessarily mental health fatigue it's managing people which comes with I have a I like to say that all people weird because we are all very different and we all there are no two people the same so we're all a little different from each other and that difference is what brings innovation and diversity and there's such great benefits from that but for managers who've got lots of people that actually that difference means that you have to approach each person individually and so there is some fatigue in there so I I think it whether it's mental health fatigue mental health issue fatigue or it's people fatigue it is one of those barriers that I don't want to get involved I don't want to have to you know have another conversation but if we want to create a space where people feel safe and can talk about these things and can seek help because we know that if you seek help you are the earlier you seek help the more chance you have of a faster recovery then we want to be having those conversations you're listening to the Open Door Coaching Coaching Cafe podcast and for more information on programs run by Open Door Coaching head to our website at opendoorcoaching.com.au now back to the podcast one of the other barriers worried about the person's reactions so tears denial I'm okay when you get the feeling that they're not I I think particularly for in the workplace there's something about tears that really worries people whereas I think of tears is just something that's important to someone so if you're worried about their reaction and so I won't lie to you either there are times when people's reactions are not exactly what you thought they would be but it's still I think it's that idea too that if the reason you're having the conversation is to help and support that person then whatever their reaction is is what that person's reaction needs to be at that particular point in time and again if they say it's not something I want to talk to you about that is okay the good news is that you had the conversation and they know that someone was looking out and watching out for them another barrier is a stigma so for lots of people the reason they wouldn't talk about their mental health concerns is a stigma around it and worried that people will treat them differently they won't get promotions they won't be considered for things and I think it's come a long way but that doesn't mean that it doesn't still exist and it doesn't mean that it's not real for people so it's important when you're having the conversation and that there's that barrier to say that you know it's that bit that says there isn't any judgment for me in regards to mental health I am I so that the person feels comfortable to have that conversation not being able to pick the right timing place privacy issues so that this so it doesn't happen because you can't find the right place it's that barrier and it is really a key component is that it is important to pick the right place because you can't do it in an open planned office in case because all of those other barriers come up so if it's a stigma issue if they're worried about how they're going to respond picking that right place is important often going for a walk meeting up for coffee something like that it's if you want to pick a spot but also don't pick a coffee spot where everybody goes so when you get there you go oh hi how you going hi how you going yeah that that's important and Brett added in here too that you're not trying necessarily to solve the issue this is and I absolutely agree with you Brett too if that this is why I think the coaching approach is the key in the conversations around mental health is that in coaching we're not trying to solve someone's issue and so in a conversation about mental health it is exactly the same space that we're not trying to solve the issue we're trying to let you know that we've noticed something and that we're here to talk if you are available and that there are supports available that we can help you with but we're not solving that issue so thank you Brett and then the one of the other barriers to the conversations is being volunteered or as we put in here volumptuld for training so you're going to you're required to do this training and as we know when people get told to do anything they don't actually I don't know about you but I don't like being told what to do either so when you are told to do some mental health training or you're told that this is something that you have to do that it forms a barrier and so it's important when we're talking about it it's about knowing that it's it's part of our world and so it's important for people to know how to have that conversation because you just never know who you might know that you might need to have this conversation with and sometimes the strongest people you know are the ones that might need the conversation so these are some of the barriers to the conversation and we've talked about it so how might we approach the conversation. The good news is that if plan A didn't work that the alphabet has 25 more letters that you can start with and to stay cool and in that idea around the reason people don't have these conversations is they're not sure how to start it they're not sure what to say they're not they're honestly I know I've spoken to lots of people I've been concerned that they will say the wrong thing from a conversation starter we start with the are you okay I'm not always happy with the okay word because I always links with the are you okay day which I absolutely support but what I want to do is push it that little bit further that says how's everything going for you and so I throw in a really nice big coaching question that's a bit more open because asking just if you are okay is that closed question so how's everything going for you what's happening for you in this space at the moment. Jane added in that if plan A doesn't work there's 25 more letters I agree we often think that the first question you throw out that in coaching of the first question you throw out there doesn't fall doesn't work we don't just give up and walk away we then come up with a different coaching question that that would help so asking are you okay what's going on for you at the moment I've noticed something is everything all right and listening with an open mind I think has coached this is one of the gifts that we have is that the coaching approach is about listening and it's about about listening for what's being said as well as not what is being said in the body language and being able to not be judgmental and sometimes people are going to say things that will hit against a value of yours or something that you believe in the key in this space is it's not about judging them for that it's about thinking about how can I help this person get help and support and putting that judgment to the side now as a keynote for all of us coaches we know that if you have to put a judgment to the side then you need to debrief with someone and we highly recommend you do that but in that conversation with that person the focus is on them so what do they need to move forward explaining why you're concerned I've noticed something you know you don't seem to be yourself you know and it's not just for that one day it's not you having a bad day today it's I've noticed over the last couple weeks that you're not talking about about what you're doing on the weekends or you're angrier at all the work that you're doing or there's something that's become obvious that it means that you're worried that there's something going on for that person so thinking about you know what is it you're concerned about and be prepared to wait and be comfortable with silence again I think from a coaching perspective this is the absolute this is where we can really come in here is that we know about silence we know about sitting and waiting and it might be the first time the person has said anything out loud about how they're feeling and so providing that really beautiful safe space for them to have that conversation is important and then not giving advice but exploring options now this is one that is slightly different from the coaching approach is that it's not about letting some people don't know what the options are they may not know that you can go and see your GP and get a mental health plan they might not know that there are places that you can that free confidential places that they can call so this might be one where it's not about giving advice and recommending where people might want to have they might want to move forward it's more about exploring what those options are and thinking about which one will work best for you what might be something that you can do in this space and then encouraging that action so who else could you talk to about this what might be that first step that you would like to take of all the options we've had a look at you know which of these sits best with you how might you like to take that first step to move forward and then remembering your check-in once that conversation has happened thinking and I often ask is it all right if I check in with you in a couple of weeks just to see how you're going or you know and offering it back you know at any point please come and check in with me and and I'd love to hear how it's all going and what's working for you so it's that double one that says I'd love to check in with you just I just want to make sure that you're okay and that that everything's going okay for you but also please feel free to come back if you need to follow up on this conversation or you've got more questions or you'd like to talk about it and when you're in that exploring of options honestly most organizations have got EAP programs so employee assistance programs and from a HR perspective they're one of the most underutilized programs that organizations have but they are really fabulous they are confidential and you can call them and often they expand to your family so family members can call them and you can call them about things that are not work related so if you're having an issue with one of your children or your partner or whatever it is going on you can call and have that conversation and if you are a manager you can call and say I've got a staff member this is what's going on I'm not sure how to approach it and they will help you with that as well so that is my public service announcement that if you've got EAP available in your organization please reach out and use it okay so we've had a look at the barriers and how to start that conversation remember look after yourself when you have mental health conversations it's really important that you do the debrief afterwards and that you don't take it on and as Brett said this is not about solving the problem for them it doesn't mean that you have to suddenly start you know getting completely involved it's actually up to the person and they need to it needs to be the process that will work best for them our role is really to guide and support and to be available to help but look after yourself after a conversation for those who can see the webinar we've popped up the lifeline beyond blue suicide callback service and the triple zero again it's just a reminder that there are lots of services that are available and these are all free services that someone can utilize in the first instance okay as another little public service announcement Natalie is doing the 250 kilometres in in October for the Black Dog Institute which is focused on better mental health so I have popped a QR code up there for you so if you would like to make a donation to Natalie's the program that all you can head to onefootforward.org.au it's just a way it's one of the things that we do at Open Door to connect in with mental health because it's a really important topic for us here so just as a reminder we've also got our certificate for in workplace and business coaching our deployment in leadership coaching and we do executive or senior leader co-senior leader coaching and there's a QR code there if you want to find out more I think we only have one spot left in our certificate for program for this year and then we will be heading in so then the next program so we're two thousand and twenty six if you can believe that we are going to that I'm saying that well thank you all for joining me today I really appreciate you jumping on and recognizing the mental health a world health mental health day we look forward to catching up with you all next week and I hope you all go and have a really great Friday. Thanks for listening to this episode of the Coaching Cafe podcast you can watch the full video of this podcast on our website I'll put a link in the show notes we'll see you at the next Coaching Cafe.