The Coaching Cafe Podcast

"Knowledge" in '25 ICF Competencies

• Open Door Coaching

Share episode

As you will be aware the ICF Core Competencies have been revised and during the Coaching Cafe Podcasts we have been diving deeper into some of the more thought-provoking changes. Some are simple to understand, while others invite us—as coaches—to pause and reflect. 

This week, we turn our attention to one of the more controversial updates: the introduction of the word ‘knowledge’ in the revised ICF Core Competencies. 

The updated competency now states that the coach “shares observations, knowledge, and feelings, without attachment, that have the potential to create new insights for the client.” 

But what does this really mean? How do we interpret “knowledge” within the coaching partnership? Does this blur the line between coaching, mentoring, and consulting—or does it expand our understanding of what’s possible in coaching? 

Join us for this Coaching Café Podcast as we explore: 
✔️ The context and intent behind this update to the ICF Core Competencies 
✔️ How “knowledge” aligns with the ICF definition of coaching 
✔️ What this means for your coaching practice and ethical boundaries 
✔️ How to share knowledge without attachment—and still evoke awareness 

Whether you’re an experienced practitioner or a new coach, this session will challenge your thinking and help you navigate what “knowledge” means in professional coaching today. 

Transcripts can be found here:

Thanks for listening! If you enjoyed the podcast please leave us a 5 star review wherever you listened to us! It helps promote the podcast to streaming services and other listeners.

Watch the webinar of this episode on YouTube or read the blog by visiting our website.

Want to join us live on Friday? Register Here!

Engage with The Coaching Café Podcast

Thanks for listening!

[Music] It's a very good welcome to you all. Good afternoon, a good morning for some and for some a good evening. Welcome to our coaching cafe. My name is Natalie Ashdown from Open Draw Coaching and I'm joined on the line by Paula Jones. Hello, Paula. Hi everyone. So today it's going to be talking about the knowledge debate and exploring the ICF core competencies updates and this is something that is lit up social media recently so we're looking forward to discussing this with you. Before we begin let me acknowledge the traditional owners, the custodians on the lands on which we're all meeting today and they continue in connection to the land, the waters, the communities of Australia and the lands from all around the world where you might be joining us across Australia and internationally as well. We've just been saying hello to everybody on the chat and wherever you might be joining us. We pay our respects to them elders past, present and emerging and elders from indigenous communities from all around the world. So it's wonderful to see everyone coming on the line. If you are new to the to the coaching cafe welcome, we are all about creating community, sharing learned experiences and having thought, provoking conversations. And today I hope this will be a thought, provoking conversation for you as we continue to explore the ICF core competencies update and in the ICF core competencies the updates that just came out about a month ago, we've been exploring them together over the past coaching cafes. There is one word that is causing concern and that is the topic of our conversation today. If you are a regular welcome back you know whether you're listening via our podcast which is exploding or on here live with us welcome. We love joining you every Friday at this time and we like being part of your listening podcast as well. Alrighty the ICF core competencies were updated recently. It's been five years since they were updated. There are a number of big ticket items that were included as updates to the ICF core competency and we've been discussing them over the past few weeks. One of them is the introduction of working with supervisors, supervisors or mentors as needed, being aware of coaching in terms of best practice and the use of AI technology. Another update was the being aware of the influence of one's thoughts and behaviors on the client and what's emerging for yourself and the client in the moment. Last week we discussed coaching philosophy and just a correction actually the ICF core competencies does have the definition of coaching philosophy. So thank you to our social media guru who picked that up for us and coaching philosophy is defined as the underlying theory, beliefs and principles that guide a coach's practice and interactions with clients. So if you're listening to last week's podcast you can listen to it with that lens as well, the ICF's definition of coaching philosophy. So just a correction I said I couldn't find their definition and there it is sitting beautifully in the glossary of terms so that was a really great pick up. Today we're talking about the other big ticket item, the other big change which is that the coach can share observations, knowledge and feelings without attachment and it is the word knowledge that is causing the social media linked in etc to light up with lots and lots of comments on social media about knowledge. So that's where we want to turn our attention to today and if you'd like to interact with us and give us your thoughts please feel free to interact with us via the chat box.[Music] Alrighty so let's have a look at the detail and what we're talking about here around this introduction of the word knowledge which is caused so much confusion and delay and and interest. So I think for a start it's great that there's coaching debate going on that coaches care about the ICF core competencies and they care enough to get onto social media to have a really good discussion about it so that's what we're trying to do as well. Here is the actual description that caused all the the issues and concerns. Some people are absolutely keen on the introduction others not so keen. It comes under core competency number 7 evokes awareness. Previously it said shares observations insights and feelings without attachment that had the potential to create new learning for clients so previously we already had shares observations insights and feelings that was already in the competency but now we have shares observations knowledge and feelings without attachment that had the potential to create new insights for the client. So the word that got changed was shares observations insights. The word insights got changed to shares observation and knowledge and the word learning change to creating new insights for the client. So big significant change actually that insights were swapped out with knowledge. The worry yes and well done Brett you've already picked it up. Knowledge is defined in the glossary so good pick up straight away there and I went straight to the glossary to find out and the knowledge definition. So the definition of knowledge from the ICF is information or skills gained through study observation practice or direct experience. So you can imagine as coaches now this is causing concern because if I am sharing information or skills gathered through study observation practice or direct experience the big concern is that now coaches will start mentoring, coaches will start counseling and blurring the lines between what is coaching mentoring and any other service that we might be offering and when you think about it when I first saw this word I'm like what? We've spent all our time coach training suggesting to people that they do not enter the space and share their knowledge and do mentoring etc. And so that's what caused me to have to and and Paula and and all the whole team Bridgett to have to have a really good think about what are we talking about when we talk about knowledge. What is it and what is it not? And so with that in mind I want to dig into the definition with you and give you some insights that might share our knowledge or expand our knowledge on the topic of knowledge and you can count how many times I use the word knowledge in the podcast. Here we go. Let's pick up on our discussion from last week around coaching philosophy and around knowledge and how knowledge is created and knowledge is shared. So we're looking at the iceberg principle there's an article that I've shared as well. We're looking from to gosh 2019 so looking at the academic research as well here and we're thinking about knowledge in terms of what is known on the surface that's what we're talking and exchanging information on the surface and then under the surface our role as coaches is from a knowledge perspective to surface the known to surface what the client knows and also through the co-creation through the work we do together to surface what is unknown and that's how clients get our harm moments and we discuss those as well. So our job is to surface the knowledge that the client knows and also to ask great questions, observations etc that surface what is unknown to create that knowledge. Now underneath that we do actually have knowledge which we bring to the coaching interaction. It's the interactions of ourselves and the coachy that creates this new knowledge and creates the our harm moments and surfaces the curiosity and surfaces the new insights and it's new insights and new learnings that are actually surfaced so we do have knowledge which we are bringing to that coaching interaction all the time. So I see the debate where everyone's getting upset about we're not supposed to be sharing knowledge. Hang on a second we have knowledge that we are bringing to the coaching interaction. We have knowledge of our coaching principles. We have knowledge of our coaching questions, our coaching models. We know how to listen. We know how to ask great questions. We know how to explore. We have knowledge that comes from our reflections and it's the some of our knowledge and experience which in my opinion sits under the surface. We're not just taking over the coaching conversation to tell the client everything we know about a topic. It's not that. That is not coaching. What we do have underneath the surface is an enormous amount of knowledge that when that interacts with the coachy's knowledge, surface what's known and is unknown and brings those our harm moments to the surface. So it would be silly, not silly but it would be almost, I don't know what the quite word is, it would be almost quite naive to think that we don't have knowledge that when when it's interacted with the client brings new knowledge insights and learnings. So I will get your thoughts on this in a second polar. Let me just add one more thing into our conversation and then I'll get your reflections and thoughts so far. I'm hoping this is making sense to everybody. So when it comes to sharing knowledge, just observations, knowledge feelings without the the keyword that the definition, the keyword here is without attachment and so for me and when we're doing our reflection it is about how we share that knowledge, observation, knowledge feelings, why we're doing it and when we might do it. So the how we might share knowledge is in asking good questions, for example, without attachment. We might ask good questions without attachment, without leading, without taking up all the space and all of a sudden it's all about me and how much I know about stuff. It's without directing and telling the client and in our workplaces, we don't leave people to struggle when you know something is important. So it's how we bring across that important knowledge, particularly in a workplace situation when something is important and so much should know something. It's about how we do that and we do that through asking good questions, through our curiosity, through our exploration and why are we doing it? It's to create that dance underneath the surface that allows new insights to be created and those new insights are coming from the coach because of the partnership and the co-creation that we do and when the timing is important as well. So we're not just going to start a coaching conversation, start telling the client everything we know. That's not coaching. So it's interesting, isn't it, when we think about the how, the why and the when, Nicole you've asked a very good question, the how is actually defined in terms of all the work that we do in terms of the ICF core conferences but it shows up in what's called the markers, how do we get assessed on those core conferences in the MCC, PCC, ACC, what they call the markers documents. So there is quite a lot of information around how that might be done. And Brett, you've offered some good insights here too. You've come across ICF credential, career coaches, etc. Who do bring specific niche knowledge into sessions? In reality, their sessions are likely a mix of coaching and mentoring. It's the lack of ownership and the meaning of coaching that rises again. Yeah, I agree with you. It is about the how. So if we have knowledge, for example, of the industry, then we might say, you know, I have knowledge of the industry or I have knowledge of pay scales and things like that which I can share with you if that's of interest to you, if that might inform our conversation. So it's without attachment, it's or I wonder, you know, the better question is to wonder what the client knows about this first. So what do you know about your industry, the pay scales, how might you find out? And then if you have knowledge, you might say, I've done some research on that interest recently that I'm willing to share with you is that the interest to you. So I talked to our coachies about putting an offer on the table as opposed to going, you know what, you should look up the such and such and such and such, record because they say, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So that's where when I get into the and I know this and I know that and I'm sharing all my knowledge, you can hear where I've taken over the conversation as opposed to making an offer. Observation is the same. I noticed that what we have called in the past a nervous laugh, I wonder if you noticed that because I heard that wiggle or I heard that nervous laugh, I wonder if you noticed that. And then the client might say that they noticed something and then we say, what's that nervous laugh about? Or I've noticed that's a nervous laugh that comes up when you're worried or concerned in the past, we've discussed that. So how is that happening for you? What are you noticing? So that's where we're making an offer and how we're doing it as opposed to jumping into the space, directing, telling or withholding information. Like if you know, for example, that there's new legislation on psychological safety, which Paul had discussed with us recently, or new legislation on the right to disconnect, you might say, I wonder how the new legislation on the right to disconnect influences our conversation now. So we're bringing our knowledge, but it's about how we do it, why we're doing it and we're doing it to create that new insight and when, when is interesting, isn't it? Because we want to be exploring and curious with the client as opposed to just jumping into the very beginning and telling it everybody what we know. So I think it's actually naive to think that we're not sharing knowledge. It's actually, you know, the Hu Ha and the Rumpers about, you can't share knowledge, don't not so sure about that. I don't think we are switching into mentoring, by the way. This is not mentoring. This is the coach bringing what they have to co-create knowledge with the client, with the coachee. Taking what we have to co-create knowledge, our questions, etc, with the coachee. All right, Paula, I'm pausing. I'm keen to hear what the chat thinks about this and I'm keen to hear what you think about this as well. And then I'll give a couple of examples as well. Let me pause and let's have a reflection first, though. You're listening to the Open Door Coaching Coaching Cafe podcast. And for more information on programs run by Open Door Coaching, head to our website at opendoorcoaching.com.au. Now back to the podcast. I think it's really interesting that they chose the word knowledge because it has created such a fewer around it. I don't necessarily have another example of what a different word would be, but I really love the idea around if you think of knowledge as being, what do I know and what have I learnt so far that allows me to ask the best question for this client at this particular point in time? I think that's the gold because it talked about your training and your study and then, you know, I was actually thinking about our perfect model and how you're really thinking about what are the other areas in this person's life that they may not have considered at this point in time and how you're drawing on those questions and you're drawing on them because you have knowledge of those models and you're drawing on them because you may have knowledge of the client and the question is the things they've been talking about before and you you're drawing on that. So maybe it's the drawing of knowledge as much as it is the word knowledge in there that is about where that what they're trying to get to at that point. Yes, I I love that word drawing so if it was shares observations and knowledge or draws on observations and knowledge that's that's another way of a lovely way of thinking about and you're spot on in my opinion for what it's worth for a look here is the examples building on what you what you've just said. We do have knowledge exactly what you said let's have a look what's under right under the surface in terms of our knowledge. We do have knowledge of the organization that the client is working so we have knowledge of the context. We have knowledge that comes from past coaching sessions that we've had with the client everything they have shared with us in the past and the organization within within which they're operating and exactly what you said we have knowledge of our coaching models. We are lifelong learners that's why we show up every single week to do the coaching cafe because we want to learn and reflect and grow together so every week we're adding to our knowledge bank even today we're all adding to our knowledge and we're co-creating this knowledge together. So all of that is there and if that is then surfaced at the right time that we can co-create this knowledge to expand and create new insights for our co-chairs. It's a partnership it's about co-creating and it's about surfacing the known and the unknown. So let's have a think about it. Based on what you your example you just used then Paula we might say something because of the knowledge that we have all the build up that we've come to so far we might say to the client I'm curious I wonder what does it look like given the current environment. So this this way forward that you're talking about I'm curious or I wonder what would that look like or how would that play out or what are the risks to that situation given everything we've discussed in your current environment. So I'm drawing on knowledge that I know that there's something going on in the current environment and I'm asking a really curious question. Now I could say which would be very good actually if I said well we know that there's organizational structures changes going on in your organization and I wonder how the organization changes and the organizational restructure affects this situation. You know I think that's quite a direct and leading question I would prefer to have a bit more of a general question that was like given your context and the current situation you're finding yourself in I wonder what that looks like from a leadership point of view I wonder how you want to build on everything we're talking about. So we are bringing in the context and knowledge but it's just a better question I think if you allow it to be more open and curious. Madison's actually comment I can imagine the credentialing exam is going to be much harder with this new term a lot of clear distinctions between coaching and the other disciplines are going to be so clear anymore. Yeah I think that's the the the worry and the concern actually Madison and I think that's where this great debate I see this is you know a great opportunity because we care we care about the ICF call competencies and we care about how we show up as coaches and we also care about the distinctions between coaching mentoring and other services as well. So I say bring on the debate and then I also say let's expand our thinking together about what we're talking about and let's see how it shows up as well. Here's another example for you and this is where as Paul said we have knowledge of tools and models and frameworks. So another way of another example might be the client in our in our discussions that we're having we might say to the client you know I'm thinking about caught as eight step model for change and the importance of creating a powerful coalition and I wonder or I'm curious about how that might be relevant to our conversation if at all. Now there's a coaching demonstration that I did recently and it was a cert for a person who has done our certificate for in workplace and business coaching in that certificate we talk about caught as eight step model for change. So the person's already been exposed to caught up we'd already been talking about change and so I said you know I'm thinking about caughter here and I wonder or I'm curious about how relevant caughter might be to our conversation if at all. So I've got knowledge of caughter they've got knowledge of caughter and now we're going to create a knowledge exchange around how that might be relevant. See the sugar on the end of that question is if at all that's what it means to ask a question without attachment. I'm just wondering I'm not sure if it's relevant or not what do you think as the coachy if at all means I'm not attached. Alternatively we could have been talking about people and who needs to be involved in the change etc and I might ask knowing that we've been talking about that knowing that there's people that so in this demo that I did we knew that there was people that the coachy needed to influence. I knew a lot of detail actually about the person that the coachy needed to influence so that knowledge has been shared with me but how do we co-create that's the beauty of of what we're doing is coaches because I could say ask a question such as so who is currently part of your powerful coalition to allow you to introduce this change. I could ask a question of like who needs to be part of your powerful coalition in order for this change process to be successful. I could ask a question like how could that person that you're talking about become part of your powerful coalition or the question that I did ask which was an excellent reframe question in the demo in in in the coaching conversation was you know what I'm curious. What if that person was to become part of your powerful coalition? Now it was without attachment it's a curious question but that question created knowledge and thoughts and insights that hadn't been there before and that surfaced new insights and a massive reframe for the coachy because they they had never considered previously never thought can previously that the person could be part of a powerful coalition that only ever previously thought of the client as an adversary you know someone to feel or someone to someone to watch out for and distrust etc. So we can see how the knowledge that we have when it's framed in the right way with the framing of a powerful powerful question can really surface knowledge that's never been there before in that co-creation space. Paula just throwing to you because now I've given the examples based on what you've talked about as well have you got other thoughts that we that you might share with us? Yeah I think the biggest key here is about remembering that in those ICF core competencies that we are talking about coaching and we're not talking about mentoring and we're not talking about advising and when you take it in that context it really does allow for this overlay that it knowledges that you as a coach bring this really great knowledge that allows you to ask really great questions at the time that you need to ask it that helps the coachy to explore insights for themselves. So I think it's about remembering in the context of it's coaching core competencies not mentoring core competencies and when you do that that term knowledge it means something different in this space. I think that's a really good insight thank you Paula and just remembering that alone is really important. So in no way has the ICF actually said in the in the core competencies that mentoring is allowed now or mentoring is part of what we do or telling or advising or directing or anything like that and they haven't they haven't said you know that the coach should share everything they know about topics either. So I don't think there's a need actually to be really super concerned about it. I think again it comes back to the how and the why. There's a big concern that rookie coaches will now get permission to just start telling everybody what they know and you know that's not is part of that's not part of the ICF core competencies. In fact the ICF core competencies specifically rule that out. So it's not you know throwing the baby out of the bath water so to speak when it comes to this topic of knowledge. So I think that's a very good insight you have there that you've offered us Paula thank you. So there you are everybody something to explore or something to think about, something to reflect on. For me the big thing is how do I bring my observations and my knowledge to create a space of co-creation partnership as opposed to being saying everything that I know and taking over the space etc etc. The other thing also that is a challenge in the workplace is what if I know something at which point do I share that and that's something that we can think about as coaches as well again I really encourage people in our in our coach training to make the offer. I've got some knowledge around that if that would assist our conversation or there is there's something that's happening that you might need to be aware of and I'm more than willing to share that with you if that would assist our conversation. So it's not it's not inserting ourselves and talking nonstop and talking about our experiences etc etc but it's inserting knowledge we're actually the why because it serves the coach and creates new insights. Alrighty so hopefully giving you lots to reflect on giving you lots to think about and I am really excited actually about the depth that we can go into here when we're exploring something we really care about which is the ICF core competencies and the changes. Cool so we talk about a lot of these things in our certificate for in workplace and business coaching and in our diploma of leadership coaching reach out to us if you're interested in that and for one more day actually I'm going to encourage you that if you really enjoy our coaching cafes we never ask for payment so please consider just for this month because it is world mental health week, it's a world mental health month. I'm doing a walk which I'm trying to clock my kilometers for the Black Dog Institute to raise awareness for mental health today is the last day so if you would consider a donation there is a QR code there on the screen and you can just give a simple donation and that would be wonderful to support mental health. So thank you everyone thank you for joining us today it's been a pleasure to share this knowledge and these insights with you and we look forward to catching up with you at our next coaching cafe. We will say goodbye for now thanks for your insights Paula. No worries we'll see you all soon. Thanks everyone goodbye for now. Thanks for listening to this episode of the coaching cafe podcast you can watch the full video of this podcast on our website. I'll put a link in the show notes. We'll see you at the next coaching cafe.[Music]